[mmaimcal] [Almasci_chile] Some thoughts on ALMA calibrator sources

[Bryan Butler]

what would be very useful is for you and jeff (and any others who need 
to) to have a look at our current metadata list and tell us if there's 
anything missing.  we can probably add it, then we can work off of a 
common database, which i think is a good thing.

	-bryan


Anita M. S. Richards wrote, On 5/10/10 13:50:
> 
> Thanks Bryan,
> 
> Dave Harland kindly sent me some information about what I believe to be 
> the NRAO data model for sources.  I am not sure whether I ahve the most 
> recent version.  It has some similarities with the A(LMA/EVLA?)SDM but 
> it is not identical.  The version I saw is missing some pieces of 
> information as far as I can make out, but maybe I ahve missed something.
> 
> Personally, I do not want the actual source lists (although examples and 
> the sky density, range of params etc. are useful) - what I really want 
> is the metadata, i.e. what are the properties which are tabulated etc.
> 
> thanks very much
> 
> a
> 
> On Mon, 10 May 2010, Bryan Butler wrote:
> 
>>
>> for EVLA, we have converted many calibrator databases to a common 
>> format for use within our OPT (the equivalent of phase II of the OT 
>> for ALMA).  the current list is: GBT, ATCA, VLA, PdBI, SMA, VLBA (2 
>> versions), CARMA.  of course there is quite a bit of commonality in 
>> the source lists between these since they borrowed from each other.  
>> ATCA has a newer version than we copied, but i haven't gotten a copy 
>> of it from them yet.  SMA is ticklish about using their calibrator 
>> database, so you have to get permission from them.
>>
>> this is all in an oracle database.
>>
>> each of the sources conforms to our source model (part of our Project 
>> Data Model).  i can probably get hold of a diagram (UML, mostly 
>> likely) to describe what goes into their definition.  it would be best 
>> if we could have a common definition between ALMA and EVLA.  we have 
>> had talks with alison peck and jeff mangum about this in the past; 
>> maybe it's time to pick up those discussions again.
>>
>>     -bryan
>>
>>
>> Al Wootten wrote, On 5/10/10 09:39:
>>> Hi Anita
>>>
>>> There is a wiki for discussion of the development of requirements for 
>>> a calibrator database.  It should be a framework for pushing the 
>>> discussion along--Jeff updated it in June of last year.
>>>
>>> http://almasw.hq.eso.org/almasw/bin/view/Archive/AsaCatalogues
>>>
>>> I'd suggest that to be a good place to put your draft for discussion.
>>>
>>> The science group task assignments are at:
>>> http://wikis.alma.cl/bin/view/AIV/ScienceGroupTaskAssignments
>>> It looks like Stuartt is in SCO this week; you could chat with him 
>>> and Richard and Rudiger, I'd suggest.
>>>
>>> Clear skies,
>>> Al
>>>
>>> Anita M. S. Richards wrote:
>>>> Al et al.,
>>>>
>>>> Some time ago I was asked by Andreas to produce a document on 
>>>> metadata requirements for ALMA calibration sources, with a view 
>>>> (among other things) to defining what information could be extracted 
>>>> from the pipeline, as well as standardising descriptions of existing 
>>>> catalogues.  This was in parallel with some work for the VO on 
>>>> metadata requirements for interferometry.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I talked to some of the relevant people and produced a 
>>>> draft, but I am very aware than I may not have foound all the 
>>>> relevant material. Also I do not know where to go next with it.  
>>>> Since I am in Santiago this week and then at the OSF, if there is 
>>>> anyone who might find this useful I can send them the draft and 
>>>> discuss what to do next?
>>>>
>>>> thanks very much
>>>>
>>>> Anita
>>>>
>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
>>>> - - -
>>>> Dr. A.M.S. Richards, UK ARC Node, Room 3.135
>>>> Jodrell Bank Centre for Astrophysics, Alan Turing Building, 
>>>> University of Manchester, M13 9PL
>>>> +44 (0)161 275 4243
>>>> and
>>>> MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, Jodrell Bank Observatory, Cheshire 
>>>> SK11 9DL, U.K. +44 (0)1477 571321 (tel) 571618 (fax)
>>>>
>>>> "Socialism or barbarism?" Rosa Luxemburg (1915)
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 10 May 2010, Al Wootten wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi folks
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a good time to consider this subject again.
>>>>>
>>>>> As we discussed at the Dec 09 Sci IPT meeting the SPT survey sources
>>>>> presented in:
>>>>> http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.2338
>>>>> support the predictions made in the numerous ALMA memos on the 
>>>>> subject.
>>>>>  The area surveyed was very limited but of course this is a dynamic
>>>>> field with Planck and the SPT still exploring.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think sourceCatalog.py is a derivative of SMA and other catalogs but
>>>>> ALMA is reaching the point where it can contribute usefully to 
>>>>> compendia.
>>>>>
>>>>> There was a plan at some point for a comprehensive EVLA/VLB/ALMA 
>>>>> catalog
>>>>> but I do not know where that stands or whether ALMA needs an 
>>>>> independent
>>>>> initiative.  Temporal measurements are critical--certain SBs run in
>>>>> March used calibrators which had worked well for the SMA but whose 
>>>>> flux
>>>>> had faded to uselessness even for the more sensitive ALMA 3-antenna 
>>>>> array.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clear skies,
>>>>> Al
>>>>>
>>>>> Harvey Liszt wrote:
>>>>>> Something to keep boredom at bay. Attached.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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