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Thierry,<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I certainly appreciate your input, and apologize for the frustration, but we're obviously speaking terribly different languages here. I am a software developer; nothing more, nothing less. I have a client that is interested in opening and editing FITS files. We've been provided with nothing more than FITS example files, a FITS specification, and a few line items like "the ability to view a histogram". You're right, a class in astronomy might certainly be helpful, but you have certainly *not* answered my questions. You've answered my questions in the same manner you say I'm asking them; according to your preconception of what you *think* I should be asking.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>You obviously have a good grasp of FITS. I simply need that knowledge translated. All of these techno-philosophical answers do nothing for a software developer. Again, I am not a scientist. I asked other questions in a different post. Perhaps you can answer them. My apologies for re-posts. Feel free to only answer the ones that don't try your patience:</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">1) Is a FITS file really similar to, say, a Microsoft Word document. . .in that it can store *any* kind of data (images, mp3s, pdfs, minivans) with the only thing that can be counted on being the "standard" header? It seems that my problem is the fact that I'm expecting FITS to actually *fit* (pun intended) into some specific category with absolutely specific syntactical and semantic requirements.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">2) What is the significance of *any* imagery in FITS? Are the images literally live pictures that were taken, or some arbitrary graphical representation of data?</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">3) How do I determine what type of image manipulations are legitimate for any type of image data? Should I allow sepia toning? Should I allow them to run photoshop filters on the pictures? I mean, what, really is the usefulness of any manipulation on the image and what are the most common techniques?</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">4) What is the goal of scientists when it comes to examining another's FITS files? What kind of "information" is truly gathered from the "data"?</font></div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Michael</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Thierry Forveille wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Michael Williams a écrit :</div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Basically I asked if these astronomers images were literally live<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>images (perhaps of the stars, or nieces and nephews), or if they were<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>simply arbitrary graphical representations of data that had no<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>reference in reality. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please read what has actually been written, by others as well as</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">by myself, rather than your preconceptions: the images are not</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"graphical representations of data", they are the data themselves.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Whether those data have any reference in reality or not is a</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">philosophical issue, and irrelevant for all practical display</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">purposes that I can see.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Also, given the fact that, as you said,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>reverse transformation isn't always possible, why in the world does<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>it matter if the user can perform image manipulations of any type?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mean, if there is no consistent way to produce an image, then why do<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>we care?</div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Well, that's very much a question for you, which has been</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">repeatedly asked on the forum and which you never answered:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">why do YOU care about FITS images, and what do YOU want to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">do with them?</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We've all tried to explain what they actually are, but without</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">any productive reaction on your side I've personally reached</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">a point where the only useful suggestion I can have is that</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">you attend/read an Astronomy 101/Philosophy of Science 101</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">class/book.</div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>